Conversation, Debates, Dishonest Tactics, Politics

Cryptic nonsense

Dear Diary,

I suppose I don’t know if this post really has a point, but let’s give it a shot anyways.

Cryptic nonsense. We all deal with. Some deal it like it’s a drug to the people around them, others are force-fed it and either smile and like it or spit it out with disgust and ask for something better.

So what am i saying? Cause it’s all rather cryptic at this point. So here, let’s spell it out.

I often find myself in a situation where I disagree with something. It’s either religious, political, social, scientific, some sort of issue I have to deal with where there is a clear disagreement that…. probably neither party will change their mind. That’s fine, I’m okay with disagreement. I don’t make the nonsense statement that it makes the world more interesting, but I certainly accept it and don’t resent the world for it. However a lot of the times I just desperately want to understand what the person is saying. What is the point of their statements? What is it that they’re trying to get at? Do they have a central point? Is this just emotions that don’t seem to have any connection to goals or needs or wants?

I’m often left in this state where I drop the fact that I disagree with them, apologize if they claim I’ve been mean or rude or whatever word they want to throw on me to try and put me on the defensive, and then ask them to elaborate.

What I get is cryptic nonsense. I ask someone what they mean by a “Slippery slope” and they say some story about some governor or something or other that doesn’t seem to really tie to what we’re talking about at all. They often change the topic completely as if they haven’t, pointing out some other hypocrisy that I might even agree with but don’t see the connection to our topic. It’s an endless chain is the worst part. Cause then I ask how that connects to the topic and they say something else that seems random and non-important.

As I go down this path, trying to take them seriously and hear them out and understand them, because I desperately want to not leave this conversation without at least understanding of their point… I come to the realization that I’ll never get the answers I’m looking for. This isn’t about disagreement, this isn’t about debating, simply understanding. I simple want to understand them so I can better access my feelings about hem. However this is simply a waste of my time, I will never get my answers.

So when I say cryptic nonsense, this is what I mean. Cryptic is an adjective meaning hidden. So I suppose I don’t mean “hidden nonsense” but rather “Nonsense that is purposefully hiding what I want to know.” This is an impossible game I’ll never win. They’ll either change the subject or say something so lacking of substance it’s hard to believe it ever got brought up in the first place. Their statements flow into a river and dissolve into it’s waters and I couldn’t begin to piece together what they’re throwing in their even if I had eternity.

This is simply frustrating. It leaves in me a state of distatste for them, which is a shame since I’d much rather like people then dislike them.

Sincerely

CrypticBulbosaur

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Burden of Proof, Conversation, Debates, Dishonest Tactics, Idiots, Internet, Thinking about what you say

Citing YOUR sources on the internet

Citizens of the world, a very new update has been found about the world! A meteor shower of shit and poopie is coming down this very second and will crush fucking everything! How I know this? Well if you don’t believe me you fucking look it up, you have fingers, why can—-

Dear Diary,

Have you ever noticed that people on the internet are some of the laziest assholes ever? I feel like the internet gives us the power to be more educated and put our ideas out there for everyone to see. However seriously everyone wants to be taken, at the same time no one wants to seem to do the work to be taken seriously.

Increasingly I find if someone makes a claim that is either interesting, unbelievable, or clearly a flat out lie when I ask someone to say…. CITE THEIR SOURCES…. they refuse.

In fact when I ask not only do people not cite their sources but they tend to make the most ridiculous claims I’ve ever heard. Even though they made the claim that needs proof the lazy fucks demand ¬†sometimes that I cite their sources for them. They say if I want proof I should look it up, that I have fingers, that I’m a poor baby I need to google, or something like that. Isn’t this… something they should be saying to themselves? What we have here is a misunderstanding of how the burden of proof works.

How does this work? Well if someone makes a claim they basically have to prove their claim, not demand someone else disproves it. Now if someone doesn’t have support for their claim they may make that clear… that they can’t prove it. This humble position is fine. However, people often result to other tactics, like the one mentioned above demanding someone else get their proof for them.

Some other tactics I’ve ran into are trying to then demand proof be raised for claims earlier made in the discussion. Now, if a claim has been made and it’s truthfulness has been questioned then yes…. that claim should be then verified with proof by the holder of the burden of proof. However it is a dishonest tactic to pretend you are skeptical of a claim that was made to distract people from the fact that your claim has come into question. It’s kind of an order of operations problem here, your claim was questioned first…. deal with that claim then move onto the others. I even once had someone demand I give proof for a claim that he earlier mentioned HE AGREED WITH.

So why would people be so insistent on avoiding giving proof for their claims? I can simplify this into two categories and then expand the categories a bit into sub categories.

They either are LAZY or LYING.

Now, this is an over simplification a bit, so let’s deal with each category one at a time. Let’s start with being lazy.

So in the lazy category we have several situations kind of on a spectrum. One is that the person is actually remembering the source they had, have seen and have looked it over, but either doesn’t want to or can’t find the source. I can understand this to a degree¬†in terms of can’t find or it’s damn hard to find and not worth the time, but then this should be admitted. If you can’t find the source say you can’t find it. If you tried to find it and said this is too big of a hassle, then say you can’t find it. If you simply do not want to find the source, then say you don’t want to. If you make a claim, don’t put it on the other person, either admit you won’t find the source and say it’s reasonable for them to not accept your claim or go find the fucking source.

In terms of the lying, this can’t be broken down in a way that’s at all helpful to understanding the situation. And by lying, I mean, knowingly deceiving someone. I don’t mean saying something you didn’t realize wasn’t true. So, if someone is trying to not cite their sources because they know it’s not true they are clearly just being a scumbag in that particular case, if not a walking monstrosity in their entirety. I mean let’s think about this for a second…. if there is no proof for their claim out there and they’re asking you to find the proof this is basically a wild goose chase. This is why anytime someone asks YOU to find the proof for their claim, you can simply point this out how ridiculous it is for you to find the proof or disproof of their claim.

Cite your damn sources or show some humility, you have the fucking internet at your fingertips. If you’re talking on the internet then…. you can find your sources most of the time. This is really simple and if you refuse to do it you’re painting yourself as lazy or a liar and neither is a flattering picture.

Sincerely

CentWothADollar

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